Episode 66, and Debra is on one about four-day weeks. Quite right too, because this is one of those topics she could probably keep going on about all week (see what I did there?). This time, Debra and Peter get stuck into a big conversation about four-day working weeks, productivity, public sector stereotypes, and whether politicians are actually paying attention to the evidence. Debra makes the case with plenty of passion, Peter pushes back in all the right places, and between them they explore what really makes organisations work well: trust, flexibility, investment, and better leadership.They also talk about switching off, or not switching off, when you are in a senior role. Can leaders ever really go on holiday without thinking about work? What happens when your phone stops ruling your life? And if good leadership means building other leaders, what does that say about the people who think everything falls apart the second they step away?There is also the usual dash of cricket at the start, including Somerset being described as a model county club, which Peter is naturally very calm and understated about.No episode next week, because José is off to Poland for a swanky AI conference. Lucky sod. Apparently this podcast cannot function without him, which is both unfair and, sadly, completely true.And if you urgently need Peter during the break, do write to his cricket president email account, which appears to be the only inbox he actually checks. We do not, however, know what that email address is, so this may not be a flawless system.YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blazquez